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Grid Connected Powerwall Design & Build
#1
Hi There,

I've recently been looking at making a power wall for my home. I currently have 3kWp of solar on the roof grid connected through a SolarEdge inverter getting paid for generation.

I'd like to add a battery to this system so that during the day I can charge my pack up and then when the sun goes down, I can power my house. I also have an Economy 7 meter which means that during the night my electricity is half price, so during the winter I can charge the pack up over night when electricity is cheap and then use it in the daytime.

I'm planning on buying new cells as I haven't got the time/patience to hunt down enough second hand batteries. I will probably buy 1000 LG MH1 or Samsung 33G cells which come in at £2 - £2.30 per cell including shipping. I will make 64P packs giving 64P14S final solution (I'm using the rest of the cells for some smaller packs). So it will be about a 9kWh pack.

I have been looking at using the PIP-HS 5048 inverter for this project, but i can't work out if it will work? Can someone who has used this inverter help? The arrangement I'd like to have looks like the circuit diagram shown below:



What I'd like to be able to do is use an emonPi energy monitor to monitor my generation/usage and control the PIP-HS 5048 to either charge the batteries or discharge depending on the load. Is this possible? I'm imagining I write a PI controller in the emonPi that gives a power demand to the PIP-HS 5048 based on the current load.


As you can see I also plan to use the Batrium BMS as many others do.

I would very much appreciate some advice on this build. From what I understand about the PIP-HS 5048 this isn't possible, however when I emailed the supplier they said it was... I think I need to put all my loads on the output of the inverter. However this would limit my usage to 5kVA as the inverter is rated at that. I have a 10kW electric shower so that wouldn't work.

It looks like there are other products out there that would work (SMA etc) but they are £2k+ compared to the £488 of this PIP-HS 5048.

Regards,

Greg
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#2
(08-18-2017, 11:47 AM)Greg Wrote: Hi There,

I've recently been looking at making a power wall for my home. I currently have 3kWp of solar on the roof grid connected through a SolarEdge inverter getting paid for generation.

I'd like to add a battery to this system so that during the day I can charge my pack up and then when the sun goes down, I can power my house. I also have an Economy 7 meter which means that during the night my electricity is half price, so during the winter I can charge the pack up over night when electricity is cheap and then use it in the daytime.

I'm planning on buying new cells as I haven't got the time/patience to hunt down enough second hand batteries. I will probably buy 1000 LG MH1 or Samsung 33G cells which come in at £2 - £2.30 per cell including shipping. I will make 64P packs giving 64P14S final solution (I'm using the rest of the cells for some smaller packs). So it will be about a 9kWh pack.

I have been looking at using the PIP-HS 5048 inverter for this project, but i can't work out if it will work? Can someone who has used this inverter help? The arrangement I'd like to have looks like the circuit diagram shown below:



What I'd like to be able to do is use an emonPi energy monitor to monitor my generation/usage and control the PIP-HS 5048 to either charge the batteries or discharge depending on the load. Is this possible? I'm imagining I write a PI controller in the emonPi that gives a power demand to the PIP-HS 5048 based on the current load.


As you can see I also plan to use the Batrium BMS as many others do.

I would very much appreciate some advice on this build. From what I understand about the PIP-HS 5048 this isn't possible, however when I emailed the supplier they said it was... I think I need to put all my loads on the output of the inverter. However this would limit my usage to 5kVA as the inverter is rated at that. I have a 10kW electric shower so that wouldn't work.

It looks like there are other products out there that would work (SMA etc) but they are £2k+ compared to the £488 of this PIP-HS 5048.

Regards,

Greg

If you are not worried about using the power if/when the grid goes down then a grid tie inverter with limiter may be a simpler option. This can be used in conjunction with your existing inverter. You can then run this at night or all the time to supply power to the house from you battery bank. Or have a split system as I do which is part grid tie with an off grid inverter for the odd occasion the grid is down and to act as a giant ups for critical loads
4 kw grid tied system

20 kWh 12v lead acid (don't ask) off grid system used as a giant ups for my servers and network and to provide house power incase of power failure

10 kWh 48v lifep04 with 1.5 kw of solar on a mpp5048 mppt and a flatpack2 2000/48 mains charger. Grid tied with limiter to help even out the power usage at night 
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#3
Thanks KtB. Yes, I'm not worried about grid outages. I can't remember the last time we had one here. Which grid tie inverter do you use?
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#4
Like how you are thinking... as you i did not have the patience to collect laptop battery's and test them... ( a do have 6 of them Tongue )
I did a build with all new cells to get a quick start, maybe expand later with used cells.
My "old" grid tie inverter is still connected to make some money, the new installation is off grid ( in Belgium it is not cheap anymore to feed into the grid )
Are you going to add solarpanels to charge your battery or are you only charge with grid ac? (those pip's do have a solar input )
Maybe load sharing is something to look into.

Btw, like your diagram, what are you using to draw it?
___________________________________
18x 300Wp solar off grid and 10x 180Wp solar tracker grid-tie
10KW 3phase hybrid inverter. 25Kwh 18650 storage (for now)
My setup: http://www.diypowerwalls.com/t-Instant-powerwall
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#5
Hi Wim, the plan is to control the inverter so that i charge the batteries from my current solar (off the 230V out of the SolarEdge) when i have excess energy (From 'the grid' from the MPP inverter's perspective). Then in the winter also top them up from cheap night time grid power. I will then power my house as much as possible when i don't have enough solar from the batteries and the rest comes from the grid. However it looks like i need a different inverter to do this. I think their 'Hybrid' inverters connected to a modbus energy meter can do what I'm wanting but they are about 4x the price...

I may also add some cheap pannels to charge the batteries from them directly as well in the future, but my current 3kWp should be enough most of the time.

The drawing was done in Microsoft Visio.

Greg
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#6
(08-18-2017, 02:16 PM)Greg Wrote: Hi Wim, the plan is to control the inverter so that i charge the batteries from my current solar (off the 230V out of the SolarEdge) when i have excess energy (From 'the grid' from the MPP inverter's perspective). Then in the winter also top them up from cheap night time grid power. I will then power my house as much as possible when i don't have enough solar from the batteries and the rest comes from the grid. However it looks like i need a different inverter to do this. I think their 'Hybrid' inverters connected to a modbus energy meter can do what I'm wanting but they are about 4x the price...

I may also add some cheap pannels to charge the batteries from them directly as well in the future, but my current 3kWp should be enough most of the time.

The drawing was done in Microsoft Visio.

Greg
I think it is best to replace the solaredge with a hybrid inverter and be done with it, (there are timers in the hybrid mpp inveters to charge only at night and much more )... anything else is going to be a pain to contol/speak with each other.
If you are a wizard with microcontroller and so, i am sure you can manage... Smile
___________________________________
18x 300Wp solar off grid and 10x 180Wp solar tracker grid-tie
10KW 3phase hybrid inverter. 25Kwh 18650 storage (for now)
My setup: http://www.diypowerwalls.com/t-Instant-powerwall
Reply
#7
(08-18-2017, 12:31 PM)Greg Wrote: Thanks KtB. Yes, I'm not worried about grid outages. I can't remember the last time we had one here. Which grid tie inverter do you use?
I have these GTIL2 2000w v2.
Mike on here has quite a few videos about the same one I use. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=1xDkTh-8OCE
4 kw grid tied system

20 kWh 12v lead acid (don't ask) off grid system used as a giant ups for my servers and network and to provide house power incase of power failure

10 kWh 48v lifep04 with 1.5 kw of solar on a mpp5048 mppt and a flatpack2 2000/48 mains charger. Grid tied with limiter to help even out the power usage at night 
Reply
#8
Thanks for your thoughts guys, I've been looking into this more myself. I think that this grid tie inverter would be the best solution:

https://midsummerwholesale.co.uk/buy/sof...000sp.html

It's designed to be used with existing solar systems and comes with CTs to measure production and consumption and controls the charge/discharge acordingly. It can also be programmed to charge at night to a certain level when electricity is cheaper. So I was starting to look if the Batrium BMS could talk to this inverter when I then found this kit:

http://www.homeswitch.co.uk/sofar-solar-9-6kwh

I can't decide if I should just buy this with the batteries or make my own battery! The cost isn't a massive difference As I'm using new cells the total cost of making my own 9.4kWh battery with a Batrium BMS would be ~£2700 plus the inverter comes to £3300 which isn't much different to the ready made kit...
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#9
For completeness, I've finished the build using these off the shelf batteries as shown below:



The system seems to work as it should, when I have excess solar, the inverter charges the batteries. When I have a load the inverter powers that load from the batteries up to 3kW, the rest is provided by the grid.

I'm just waiting on some 25mm² M6 crimps so I can shorten the battery cables and neaten that up a bit.

I'd recommend the system, not as neat as a Tesla Powerwall, but cheaper and has customisable capacity. Also I think the inverter is a good choice for anyone in the UK who already has solar with a FiT and wants to build their own powerwall to go with it. Either with off the shelf batteries or build your own batteries.
Kenny.j and mormor1971 like this post
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#10
(08-29-2017, 03:41 PM)Greg Wrote: For completeness, I've finished the build using these off the shelf batteries as shown below:



The system seems to work as it should, when I have excess solar, the inverter charges the batteries. When I have a load the inverter powers that load from the batteries up to 3kW, the rest is provided by the grid.

I'm just waiting on some 25mm² M6 crimps so I can shorten the battery cables and neaten that up a bit.

I'd recommend the system, not as neat as a Tesla Powerwall, but cheaper and has customisable capacity. Also I think the inverter is a good choice for anyone in the UK who already has solar with a FiT and wants to build their own powerwall to go with it. Either with off the shelf batteries or build your own batteries.
Having got hold of a couple of the pylontech batterys that where dead. I would recomend that you make sure that the voltages for charge and discharge are defiantly set up correctly. They only have 15 lifepo4 cells in them not the usual 16 for 48v  and if they shut down due to under  volting they lockout and you cannot start them up anymore to even charge them.

This is why the ones i got didn't work anymore  Smile

4 kw grid tied system

20 kWh 12v lead acid (don't ask) off grid system used as a giant ups for my servers and network and to provide house power incase of power failure

10 kWh 48v lifep04 with 1.5 kw of solar on a mpp5048 mppt and a flatpack2 2000/48 mains charger. Grid tied with limiter to help even out the power usage at night 
Reply


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